10 Reasons Fans Are Justifiably Angry With Joker: Folie a Deux

Joker: Folie à Deux is currently showing in theaters, but it’s highly unlikely to gross over a billion dollars like the first film. Word of mouth has been entirely negative, and those who haven’t watched it yet might choose to save their dollars. Critics haven’t been kind either, making this one of the rare instances where moviegoers and professionals actually agree on something. But is the movie that bad? While some of the criticism isn’t justified, there are several valid complaints that fans have about the long-awaited sequel.

Joker: Folie à Deux is the sequel to Todd Phillips' critically acclaimed comic book thriller Joker. Reprising his Academy Award-winning performance as the failed comedian Arthur Fleck, Joaquin Phoenix revisits the iconic DC character alongside Lady Gaga, who makes her debut as Joker's lover Harley Quinn in this standalone continuity of the DC Universe.

Release Date: October 4, 2024
Cast: Joaquin Phoenix , Lady Gaga , Brendan Gleeson , Catherine Keener , Zazie Beetz , Steve Coogan , Harry Lawtey , Leigh Gill , Jacob Lofland , Sharon Washington , Troy Fromin , Bill Smitrovich , John Lacy , Ken Leung
Runtime: 138 Minutes

The follow-up’s far-fetched premise has the titular character finding love and brutally paying for his sins. For the most part, he is at Arkham State Hospital, where he is awaiting sentencing for his numerous crimes, including murdering someone on live TV. At the institution, he meets Harleen "Lee" Quinzel, and a romance blossoms. But rather than properly explore what initially seem like two great plot anchors, the film drifts into unnecessary musical numbers, then strips the Joker of everything that made him great.

Here's what fans are justifiably angry about.

This article contains spoilers for Joker: Folie à Deux

10 Folie à Deux Ruins Joker's Ambiguous Plot

Many fans have pointed out that the sequel shouldn’t even exist because it wrecks the first film’s ambiguity. 2019’s Joker toys with audiences’ minds by suggesting that some proceedings only exist in the titular character’s imagination. This created a debate, with many suggesting that the entire film was a hallucination. A strong fan theory claimed that Arthur had been at Arkham the whole time, and this was his way of picturing an alternate reality where he had achieved something. Sadly, by simply existing, the sequel confirms that everything we saw was real.

There Is Power in Ambiguity

Ambiguity is great for any movie or TV show as it creates room for endless discussions, keeping the legacy alive. Without Joker: Folie à Deux, 2019’s Joker might have been consideredone of the greatest movies ever made. Regrettably, like a new administration erasing the good work done by the previous one, the sequel has ruined everything. This is how it would feel if a sequel/spinoff of The Sopranos came out shortly after the end of the series and confirmed whether Tony Soprano lived or died in the famous cut-to-black scene.

9 There Is More Focus on Arthur Fleck and Little Focus on His Joker Persona

Joker: Folie à Deux hardly feels like a DC movie. That’s because it focuses more on Arthur Fleck than his Joker persona. Understandably, the first film featured only a few Joker scenes, because it was more of a backstory. Surprisingly, the sequel starves fans even more, as it is heavily biased towards Arthur Fleck and his woes. For a huge chunk of the running time, the film tricks fans into thinking they are being treated to extended foreplay that might lead to something great. This doesn’t happen. The few Joker scenes are all that’s available.

It Could Have Worked Better as a Non-DC Movie

The sequel avoids comic lore so much that James Gunn has distanced himself from it, claiming it isn’t a DC Studios movie, but a Warner Bros. movie. That’s bold, considering that Gunn’s plan also includes Elseworlds stories. But the filmmaker is right. Folie à Deux hates its heritage.

Todd Phillips’ idea of a mentally challenged criminal who finds love while wallowing in his comeuppance is actually good enough for a standalone film that doesn’t involve the DC universe. Such is the kind of film that easily wins awards. However, forcing audiences to believe that this person is the Joker was a poor choice.

8 The Sequel Also Tries to Be a Legal Thriller but Fails in its Execution

With Folie à Deux, Todd Phillips did everything except make a comic book movie. There are action, drama, and musical elements, and even though the latter genre is what the film is mostly associated with, it is equally a legal thriller too… but not a good one. Like a few other confident movie characters, Fleck tries to represent himself, before renouncing his Joker persona and making a dramatic escape from the courtroom. And because this version of the character isn’t competent, he gets arrested again.

Arthur Is Dismal in Court

A great legal thriller needs suspense, twists, and powerful dialogue to generate impact and authenticity. The sequel has a twist, but it fails in all other areas, hence it doesn’t pack a wallop. Instead of dialogue, the focus remains on music. Besides that, Arthur’s decision to represent himself also borders on cliché, as such a scenario has played out in multiple movies. Despite doing so, he doesn’t even prove himself an Arthur of all trades by coming out on top. He is found guilty. More could definitely have been done to make the legal storyline more intriguing.

Heath Ledger as Joker in The Dark Knight

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7 This Joker Dies Without Achieving Anything, Making Him the Worst Version of the Character

Fans are justifiably upset by Joker: Folie à Deux’ssad ending, which kills off Arthur Fleck. Arthur gets arrested shortly after escaping from court and while he is inside Arkham Asylum, an inmate approaches him in the hallway and tells him a bad joke before stabbing him multiple times in the abdomen. Arthur succumbs to his injuries as the inmate carves a smile on his face while laughing maniacally, seemingly referencing Heath Ledger's version of the Joker.

The Joker Usually Does Better than This

Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker had been hailed as the best since Heath Ledger’s version, so killing him was a baffling choice. What if the movie did so well that another sequel was needed? What would happen then? After all, this particular universe is more realistic and has no Lazarus Pit.

The Joker’s demise itself isn't even the most disappointing part. More upsetting is the fact that the Joker dies without accomplishing anything, making him the worst version of the character. He neither gets to build an empire nor fight Batman or any other hero. For a character who is meant to be one of the most menacing DC villains, his fate is such a letdown.

6 After a Strong Introduction, Lee Quinn Doesn’t Do Much in the Second Half

Casting Lady Gaga as Lee Quinn was a great idea since she is a pop star and has been in an Oscar-winning musical (A Star Is Born) before. Gaga gives scene-stealing performances too, but the script doesn’t honor her character as much as it should. After a strong start as a woman trying to manipulate her man into becoming more evil, she falls into the background and has a lesser influence on the proceedings.

Quinn Deserves Better

In an ideal script, Lee would have linked up with Arthur the moment he became free and gone on a crime spree with him. After all, fans haven’t been properly treated to this kind of Joker-Quinn dynamic in the DC live-action space (Suicide Squad is forgettable).

Unfortunately, this doesn't happen. Lee briefly disappears before showing up in the final act to dump Arthur because he renounced his Joker persona. Even worse, this version of Quinn is only a manipulative girlfriend and never seems destined to be a criminal mastermind. It’s revealed that she lied about her past and has never done a bad thing in her life. Why then is she disappointed in Arthur for being good?

5 Random Plot Points Are Dropped and Never Picked Up Again

Loose threads can be spotted everywhere in Joker: Folie à Deux. For example, Lee Quinn mentions she is pregnant with Arthur's baby (a possible lie given her earlier confessions), yet little gets said about it thereafter. When she leaves him, she says nothing about the supposed baby in her womb. Arthur also reveals that he murdered a sixth person and faces no consequences.

4 The Musical Numbers Don’t Drive the Plot

There is a lot of singing in Joker 2, but it's pointless singing, a deliberate attempt to make the film feel cleverer than it is. In the widely publicized over-the-top jukebox musical, the characters frequently pause to deliver a message via song and dance. However, none of these numbers drive the plot. Each song mostly serves as a break rather than a bridge to a much more interesting space.

It's All for Show

Several questions were raised when it was announced that the sequel would be a musical, as not every cinephile is a fan of musicals. The first movie’s success proved that a lot of people were interested in this particular world, and they all needed to be catered to. Sadly, a niche route was adopted, and the results are there for everyone to see. Little would change in the plot if all the songs were removed. Apart from failing to drive the narrative, the numbers don’t work because Gaga and Phoenix are musically mismatched. In each of the sequences, Gaga, a natural singer, often sounds better than a co-star.

3 There Is No Update About Bruce Wayne

In 2019’s Joker, Arthur becomes convinced that Thomas Wayne is his biological father. He visits Wayne Manor and while at the gate, he meets a young Bruce Wayne and creepily sticks his fingers in his mouth to form a smile. The butler, Alfred Pennyworth, then sees Arthur off and that is the last we see of Bruce. Fans never get to learn what became of Bruce, especially after his parents get killed.

Will Batman Ever Exist?

There is an argument for Bruce Wayne not being an essential part of the story, hence leaving him out is somehow justifiable. However, a minor update is still required. After all, Bruce, and his Batman alter ego, are why fans care about this universe in the first place. A shot of a young Bruce, accompanied by Alfred, in or out of the courtroom would have been satisfactory. Ideally, fans would have loved a proper confrontation between Phoenix’s Joker and a grown Bruce Wayne down the line.

Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker, Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight, and the Joker from the animated series Batman: The Animated Series

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2 The Two-Face Reveal Is Unnecessary Since There Isn’t Meant to Be a Follow-up

In Joker 2, District Attorney Harvey Dent is hell-bent on getting Arthur locked up for a long time. He dismisses the villain’s claims of insanity and does everything in his power to make the courtroom see him as the despicable person that he is. Later in the movie, the Two-Face turn happens. After the explosion, half of Dent’s face gets scarred, revealing that he has finally turned into the iconic villain we all know as Two-Face. But is this necessary?

Two-Face Has No Place in the Story

As exciting as it is to witness Harvey's transformation, it means nothing. Phillips and his team knew that following Arthur’s death, there would be no follow-up. So, why tease us with Two-Face? Face scarring aside, we will never know how (or if) he successfully ventured into Gotham’s underworld, despite being known for putting many criminals behind bars. Perhaps a spinoff might have worked, but given how poorly the film has received, Warner Bros. executives are unlikely to ever do it.

1 Joker 2 Tries to Redeem the Joker… Yet He Is an Irredeemable Character

Folie à Deux is one big apology. Here’s a man who murdered someone on live TV and suffocated his mother with a pillow, trying to convince the judge, the jury, and the viewers that he made minor mistakes, so he ought to be given a pass. Over the objections of Lee Quinn, he pursues his redemption arc, and as expected, it doesn’t lead anywhere.

The Joker Is More Interesting When He's Bad

Arthur is an irredeemable movie character, hence urging audiences to have sympathy for him isn’t such a wise move. He is the kind of character that would be more likable if he topped his previous list of bad deeds. This briefly happens via the courtroom explosion (though it wasn’t exactly his plan), but he reverts to his weaker self shortly after, then gets dumped and killed. Ever since he was introduced in Batman #1 in 1940, the Joker has never been the kind of person to apologize, and he shouldn’t start now.

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